fencing questions - materials for basic fence?
I tried searching the forums for answers to these questions but was having trouble finding information specific to what I'm looking for! Sorry if this is redundant!
I'm going to be installing a basic garden fence around our garden and need some help choosing materials please! Maybe it doesn't matter a whole lot, but what would be the best materials as far as chicken wire/hardware cloth is concerned for an organic garden? What is most likely to not leach anything into the soil, especially if I bury a portion of the fence to keep out digging pests? I definitely want to avoid the vinyl coated wire but don't know if there is reason to avoid any of the others�
Also - what fencing material do you recommend? Can some pests squeeze through chicken wire? So is it best to used something with smaller holes? We pretty much have all of the usual suspects waiting to snack on our garden - rabbits, squirrels, (are chipmunks a problem? - tons of those) raccoon, skunk, probably groundhogs too - I've seen them around the neighborhood but not in our yard (yet!)
Is 3 feet tall high enough to keep them out (minus deer) or should I make it 4 feet? I'd like to keep it low if possible so it will be camouflaged behind a hedge of rugosa rose.
Any aversions to those basic metal stakes people purchase along with the fencing? Do they do the job well enough or should I go with something more heavy-duty like thicker wood stakes?
Thanks for any input!
Kommentare (16)
emmers_m
vor 10 JahrenSquirrels and groundhogs will not be deterred by even 4 Ft of fence.
My current fence is 6ft chickenwire with the bottom 6 inches bent out and secured under pavers (when contemplating burying 200ft of fence I decided that was nuts) and the top foot or so left unsecured and floppy in the hopes that my porky groundhogs wouldn't be able to climb it.
It's been working for everything but voles and squirrels, but I'm pretty sure no groundhogs have tried it on.
My next iteration would/will be 2-3ft of hardware cloth at the bottom - bent under pavers as described - then 4ft of chickenwire 'sewn' on using additional wire again with the top left unsecured, then a few strands of electric wire run around the top for the squirrels.
The only issues with the chickenwire as material are that the holes are large enough for voles etc. to get through near the bottom and winter.
If you are in a climate with winter the snow load can do a job on the chickenwire. I attach mine to the t-posts with zip ties so that they will usually break before the chickenwire is stretched or broken too badly.
One of the thoughts with the 'sewing' was to try to make the top removable for winter without un-pavering/ unburying the lower portion, but it turns out the sewing is too tedious to regularly schedule it.
~emmers
digdirt2
vor 10 JahrenThe only issues with the chickenwire as material are that the holes are large enough for voles etc. to get through near the bottom and winter.
Can I add that they are also big enough for mice and some rats to get through. We often forget that they are just as damaging as some of the larger varmints.
I haven't found ANY fence that will keep everything out so I identified my main problem animals (armadillos, raccoons, mice, and rabbits) and focused on keeping them out and hardware cloth works great for that and looks much better than chicken wire does too. Nothing keeps squirrels out unless the top is covered too.
best materials ...for an organic garden?
How valid a concern is that? Not very IMO unless the fence is going to actually be IN your garden rather than outside it like normal. "Toxic leaching" into the soil is a subject that is blown way out of proportion IMO. Exactly what is going to leach from steel T fence posts? Iron oxide maybe as they rust? But then that is a normal component of soil.
Dave
appletree729
Ursprünglicher Verfasservor 10 JahrenThanks for the responses!
I think I'll go with hardware cloth then as opposed to chicken wire. I also think that for now, I may have to start with the basics - probably just a 3-4 ft hardware cloth fence. Emmers - your system sounds great! But it's too complicated for me right now I think. I'll have to address any additional issues in future years I guess - like if we do actually end up seeing groundhogs, etc. I'm a bit of a newbie so doing an electric fence, floppy top, etc is a bit too overwhelming for me right now...
As far as the material/toxins - I admit that I sometimes go a little bit overboard and may be slightly more worried/aware about these things than is necessary. I figure though that if there is a material out there that is less potentially 'toxic' than another material, why not choose the least toxic one? I don't lose sleep over it though. I will however have 7 blueberry plants planted alongside one part of the fence, in the same soil, so I do want to know what my options are.
To answer your question about what will leach from it - I think the issue is more whatever the coating is on the hardware cloth/chicken wire. There is sometimes a vinyl coating and there is enough evidence pointing to potential health problems associated with vinyl to make me not want to incorporate it into an organic garden when there are other choices available :)
thanks again for the thoughts. Dave - how tall is your fence? Do you think 3 feet is tall enough to keep out the basic pests like rabbits, voles (a portion will also be buried and/or bent out like emmers suggested), mice, etc? I guess our other potential pests like squirrels, raccoons, etc might need some additional attention later if they end up being too big of a problem...
digdirt2
vor 10 JahrenMine is 4' because that was the width of the fence rolls but yeah 3' should work. Along the bottom I just used the metal ground staples and drove them into the ground about every 3' between the posts so they can't dig under the fence.
I agree with you about using the vinyl, just buy the galvanized. But if you plant the berry bushes right up next to the fence they will be eaten. You need to have a DMZ between the fence and anything you want protected.
Dave
Kimmsr
vor 10 JahrenYou may want to look into what is called field fence that often has varying mesh, smaller at the bottom to aid in keeping the smaller critters out. To keep those that burrow out you will need to bury at least one foot of fence under ground in an inverted "L" with the bottom of the "L" facing outward. Many people have also left the top 2 feet of fence loose so when thingys such as groundhogs, woodchucks, etc. climb up they get dumped.
david52 Zone 6
vor 10 JahrenA version of field fence is "horse fencing", which is far sturdier, the holes are smaller than small holes in field fence. Its more expensive, 100' runs $140, but that far less expensive than hardware cloth.
Kimmsr
vor 10 JahrenAs is obvious the fencing above does not have varying mesh that would keep small critters from making entry. I have seen fencing with small mesh bottoms and larger mesh atop at Lowes, Home Depot, Tractor Supply, and Family Farm and Home.
catherinet
vor 10 JahrenThis isn't the greatest picture, but it shows you what we did, as we were building it. You can see the metal stakes and cedar 4x4s to the left and in the back.
We had a horrible/dilapidated 2' rusty chicken wire fence for a number of years, and always had bunnies jumping over it. Finally..........we built a new one. Maybe it's over-kill, but I don't think we'll ever need another one. We used cedar 4x4 posts at the 4 corners and on each side of the 2 openings. We then used heavy duty 5'(?) metal posts about every 6'. We wrapped 4' tall utility fencing around everything but the openings, and then lined the bottom with 2' chickenwire. For the gates, I just used sections of a cattle panel that we had, with the bottom lined with chicken wire, and bungee-corded it onto the posts.
I bought the chicken wire at Menards and was very irritated to realize that it quickly rusts. If I were you, I'd try to find a good brand, made in the U.S. Menards (as like most places) has gone to China for their manufacturing. I believe the utility wire we bought at Lowes was made in the U.S. We tried to find 12 gauge, but could only find 14 gauge........that's doing okay.It's such a relief for us to not worry about bunnies in the garden any more! We do have alot of deer around, but I think all the vertical trellising I have inside the garden deters them from jumping in.
If you want to build a shorter fence (than needed to keep out deer)....you can do a number of things with wire, that will dissuade them.
Smaller bunnies can get through the openings in the utility wire, and that's why we lined it with chicken wire at the bottom. Hardware cloth would work well, but is more expensive.Now our major pest is mice. They're an even bigger challenge! I, too, worried about funky chemicals coming off various fencing and stakes........but I just had to forget about it, and hope for the best.
Good luck to you!{{gwi:136384}}
catherinet
vor 10 JahrenHere's a slightly better pic that shows you the 2 types of fencing and the metal stakes. We used zip-ties to hold the fencing to the stakes. I wanted to use those special metal clips that come with the stakes, but they were much to hard to figure out! So we used some of each.
{{gwi:136385}}david52 Zone 6
vor 10 JahrenThe mesh size of horse fence is smaller than the smallest size at the bottom of field fence.
digdirt2
vor 10 Jahrencatherinet - looks good and looks as if it should be very effective for most varmints too. Good ideas!
Dave
catherinet
vor 10 JahrenI'm not sure how high those smaller openings go at the bottoms of some of the fencing, but I've always thought they didn't go high enough to keep out bunnies.
And some of them are close together horizontally, but not vertically. It's amazing how much bunnies can squish their bodies to get to those beans!
catherinet
vor 10 JahrenThanks Dave!
Now if the weather would just start acting like spring, we could have some fun out there! :)
PROCentral Valley Fence Company
vor 7 JahrenZuletzt geändert: vor 7 JahrenThe absolute ultimate organic garden fence. We just built one for a famous Silicon Valley high tech guru's wife. Redwood Posts using a product at the base called The Post Collar. It protects form rot for decades and does not leach. The absolute best product on the market is Howard Wire. Do you research on Howard wire. It is pricey but not that bad for a garden. I have nothing at all to do with Howard wire except install their products, and a lot lately. Its the best period for organic gardens. I see pictures above of welded wire, which is galvanized and the holes are 2"x2" s and small animals can get in. I also see galvanized chicken wire, electroplated galvanized neither of which are minerals found in the Earths soil. From a long time fence contractor it all depends on how organic you truly want to be get to.
lazy_gardens
vor 7 JahrenTroy - that fence may be organic and esthetic as all get out, but it fails as a fence to keep out anything but a small arthritic poodle and bunnies (if you have gates and if they can't dig under)
Deer and squirrels can climb over, as can raccoons and cats and many dogs.
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