Please advise ASAP- quarter round on NEW construction?
Kommentare (52)
acm
vor 8 JahrenSome people just always use a shoe molding with wood floors, so it could be style or tradition rather than laziness per se.
kbigelo hat acm gedankt
PROPatricia Colwell Consulting
vor 8 JahrenIn a new construction this is not acceptable and I do designs without shoe mold all the time so it can be done the baseboards are to small IMO and the quarter round looks awful not sure why there is no baseboard around the corner to the left . Did you actually choose the baseboard or just let the builder do that. IMO when building a new house or doing a reno you need to be at the site every day much easier to fix before all done.
PRONorm Walters Construction Inc.
vor 8 JahrenThis is most likely a case where the baseboards and all the rest of the trim were installed before the flooring, which is common for a lot of builders. I am assuming that the walls were not perfect, they usually aren't, as the framers don't check the studs anymore for warpage anymore, in most cases. Now it falls on the tile installers who must bid the job low to get it, and many other jobs for the same builder. Does the tile installer take three times as long to install the tile so that trim isn't needed, you make the call.
kbigelo hat Norm Walters Construction Inc. gedanktkbigelo
Ursprünglicher Verfasservor 8 JahrenThe response I received was the following:
'¼ round is standard installation practice on wood or vinyl floors. What you may be looking at on the models is ceramic tile/simulated wood which receives grout not ¼ round or wide base which is an upgrade/option shown in the 3 plan model.'
Then after I told him about the response I've been receiving here (I have it under Polls as well) about it NOT being acceptable installation:
'I have been in the homebuilding industry since 1965 and worked with 6 different builders and flooring companies. Without exception, this is how it has always been done on wood floors and vinyl floors. In fact, I have never even received a request to do it any other way. Jim – Your thoughts?' (FYI: Jim is from the Design Center where I ordered my flooring -Bernini from the Studio Moderno Line from Provenza).
What would YOU do at this point?? I am embarrassed to say how much I spent, but it was over $10K for just the lower level floor and I am SO disappointed I can't even express it enough.
emilyam819
vor 8 JahrenSome builders in some areas do the quarter round all the time and others do not. Was the floor installed before the trim? If so, the baseboard should cover any gaps and still allow room for expansion.
I think the most logical way to do it is floor first, then baseboard, no shoe mold.
But it is personal personal preference (unless there are gaps). So if your personal preference is no shoe mold, have them remove it and fill the nail holes before they paint a final coat.
kbigelo hat emilyam819 gedankt
PROMorrone Interiors
vor 8 JahrenI would ask them why they installed it first. However, new construction should not have quarter round...down here in Florida anyway :)
kbigelo
Ursprünglicher Verfasservor 8 JahrenThat is the biggest issue is that the builders installed the trim first, then cut the wood to that and covered the edges with a quarter round - sloppily. From everything I've seen, the trim/baseboards should have gone in AFTER the flooring was installed, not before.
PROGN Builders L.L.C
vor 8 JahrenShoe molding is used 98% of the time on every job involving hardwood floors from apartments to multi million dollar homes.
It also used on tiles and other floorings, if there is no tile being used instead of trim, etc... even if you fill everything with grout, the grout will crack down the road due to seasonal changes so shoe molding is the way to give a finished look without future maintenance.
The reason shoe molding is used is because it has more flex in it and if there is a slight floor imperfection, it will fit snug against the floor... If only base molding is used it will leave a noticeable gap gap, not to mention in most cases if there is no shoe molding,you get that unfinished appearance.
In your case, the molding needs to be caulked and painted and it will look real good.
If you don't like it, remove it and leave it out, the choice is yours.
kbigelo hat GN Builders L.L.C gedanktkbigelo
Ursprünglicher Verfasservor 8 JahrenThat's just the thing, I don't think I have a choice to remove it because it was done AFTER the baseboards were already in, so it is covering the cuts underneath. I have seen a lot of shoe molding that looks great. This isn't the case here.
kbigelo
Ursprünglicher Verfasservor 8 JahrenK.O.H., would you cut the quarter round that way around corners?? I would never think that looks finished. Do you really? Either way, what would you do to make it look more finished/uniform? I have seen MANY pics online that have wood floors but not with this jagged trim.
User
vor 8 JahrenThe problem isn't so much the fairly standard quarter round but the inadequacy of the other trim. With doors done properly, and a substantial plinth block, the shoe mold dies into the plinth and it is a complete finished look. This is done the absolutely cheapest way possible, which apparently is what the OP chose since an upgrade package was available that wasn't chosen. This is an example of buyers remorse because the different trim levels were inadequately explained, or the OP viewed it as unnecessary.
kbigelo hat User gedanktkbigelo
Ursprünglicher Verfasservor 8 JahrenI was never given the option of the upgraded trim - had known it would look like this I would never have done it.
- PRO
Norm Walters Construction Inc.
vor 8 JahrenThe quarter round could be returned onto itself, takes more time. it's just making two 45 degree angles with the end piece cut on a 45 on one end and cut 90 degrees on the other end with the tiny piece being the same depth as the quarter round.kbigelo hat Norm Walters Construction Inc. gedankt - PROkbigelo hat Norm Walters Construction Inc. gedankt
PROGray & Walter, Ltd.
vor 8 JahrenQuarter round is usually used with wood floors. It isn't about laziness. However, many contractors do wood floors w/o base molding and quarter round. If the home is old you may not be able to avoid the shoe molding unless you are willing to really spend money. Typically you need a flawless installation if you go with sans base and shoe molding look.
kbigelo hat Gray & Walter, Ltd. gedanktkbigelo
Ursprünglicher Verfasservor 8 JahrenGray...It's new construction - from the ground up (albeit tract housing- but $700K+ luxury tract housing), so we are not dealing with an old home in this case. I do not want to go without the baseboards; I would have been great with that - but not with a baseboard that already has some thickness AND large quarter round/shoe molding.
PROSoCal Contractor
vor 8 JahrenQuarter rounds are not indicative of laziness. Who designed the homes in this community? It could be that its typical construction in that community to use base moulding and shoe moulding. You should ask your superintendent about it, but it doesn't necessarily mean bad cut jobs. The base moulding is used to trim the joining between the walls and floor. The shoe moulding is just an extra detail typically used in more traditional settings.
kbigelo hat SoCal Contractor gedanktkbigelo
Ursprünglicher Verfasservor 8 JahrenZuletzt geändert: vor 8 JahrenSoCal- Do you honestly think that the pictures I have shown are how it is supposed to look? Would you accept that (especially around the doors in the second and third pics) with those edges jutting out in your own home? The problem is that they did the trim (baseboards) before installing the floor. So they left themselves no choice but to cut the wood short to that baseboard and use the quarter round. It looks very unfinished.
I will privately disclose the name of the company (though I'm not sure how to do that here). I am not looking to throw anyone under the bus, I just want it to look aesthetically pleasing and finished.
PROBrickwood Builders, Inc.
vor 8 JahrenShoe molding is always used in new construction and remodeling here in central NC. I have never seen it done any other way except with carpet. Wood floors, vinyl floors, tile floors - all have shoe molding.
kbigelo hat Brickwood Builders, Inc. gedanktbeseaside
vor 8 JahrenWas this the same moulding they used in the model? Have you reviewed the specs for your home. These things are usually clearly laid out. I have frequently seen baseboard installed before floor, but at a height so the floor fit under it. Quarter round could be installed or not, though in humid climates it is great for expansion issues.kbigelo hat beseaside gedankt
lhutch13
vor 8 JahrenThe quarter round should not be installed before the wood flooring. That's dumb and makes no sense. They should take it out. It goes on at the end, on top of the floors.
Quarter round is very commonly used as part of the trim on all flooring that's not carpet.kbigelo
Ursprünglicher Verfasservor 8 JahrenUnfortunately, in the model they used tile so I don't have anything to compare it to. I have asked them to please send me an example or two of the fully finished product that is like mine from another site they've done.
PROK.O.H. Construction Corporation
vor 8 JahrenIn regards to how the shoe mold or quarter round is cut and installed,,yes that is the exact way we and every builder I know installs it. I believe every builder that posted here agrees. The baseboard looks small but I don't know what your specs say therefore I can't fault the builder for that. Al the best!
kbigelo hat K.O.H. Construction Corporation gedanktkbigelo
Ursprünglicher Verfasservor 8 Jahrenllutch13- the baseboards were on first, then they put the floor down, then the quarter round on top.
PROBourke Construction Inc.
vor 8 JahrenIt appears that door casing not baseboard has been installed.
And you are right quarter round should only be used to cover a gap.Which you should not have if this is new construction.
Would have contractor remove door casing and instal pine baseboard as it looks like he has used medium density fiberboard (mdf) which when it comes In contact with water expands and blisters
Ed
kbigelo hat Bourke Construction Inc. gedanktMarleneM
vor 8 JahrenI'm glad a pro mentioned it is casing instead of baseboard because that's what bugged me the most, and everyone seemed to commenting on the quarter round. Looks like they used leftover pieces or something. I wouldn't be happy either if it was my home.kbigelo
Ursprünglicher Verfasservor 8 JahrenBOURKE...Thank you for clarifying that!! Is the eyesore I'm having because the trim used is MDF and really thick already - so everything juts out too far? As a builder, what do you think the chances are of my getting them to do what you are suggesting on a tract home that is supposed to be move-in ready by the end of the month? If all else fails and they refuse, what can I do, if anything? I promise, I am not an unreasonable person! ;)
Here is an example of what they say it will look like (from another of their sites)
What do you think?maryamartinez
vor 8 JahrenTo me it looks like a design issue, not necessarily a poor/lazy job. They could've installed plinths for a more finished look. Probably an upgrade. But I'm not a pro, just a casual observer, so what do I know? I would say that you should do whatever you can to have it redone in a way you find adequate and are happy with it will always annoy you if you don't.- PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
vor 8 JahrenThe model photos that you posted show a small speed base with quarter round. (I prefer shoe molding because it is smaller than quarter round.) It appears to be what is used in your home as well except in the one photo. I don't know where in the home the first photo was taken, but it does not appear to be a standard wall with whatever the angled moldings are on the wall. I would want to see a wider shot of this area before commenting on that. The speed base is regular builder spec house grade and is short so it gives a different look than a 7" base would. The fact that MDF is used makes no difference from an appearance standpoint - there are performance differences.
It needs to be caulked up and putty applied. We don't see returns done on quarter round in our area unless it is an really high end home. The angled cut at the ends would be normal for our area.
- PRO
GN Builders L.L.C
vor 8 JahrenKbigelo, this is an industry standard and common practice to install shoe molding in places with hard surfaces,i.e wood,tile,vinyl flooring, etc. Being this a tract home to change your molding width and style is an upgrade and most likely you will be charged a substantial amount of money if you like to upgrade your trim or anything else for that matter.
So frankly speaking, you have a basic trim package that comes with the house and not much you can do about that, unless you upgraded the trim package and they ordered the wrong trim or did a poor job on it... if not unfortunately you cannot do anything about it.
With that being said shoe molding serves to make a nice transition between the base molding and the floor. The intended function of shoe molding besides being a decorative piece of trim, is to cover any space or imperfection between the base molding and the floor.
You have to keep in mind that you might have a tight fit were baseboard will lay flat against the floor on shorter spans of the wall, but you could have a slight height variation on longer spans of the wall especially if you dealing with conventional framing, and no matter how thick your baseboard is, it will never cover that height variation... and that is what the shoe molding is for, to cover all imperfections at transition point because it can flex and it can fit snug against the floor.
I can see from your pictures where baseboard molding is capped near the sliding door, I guess they did that because this sliding door is not made to accept door casing, which you don't see that often and I guess the trimmer did what he taught it would look best based on the circumstance to make it look good.
If anything, I would ask the builder to cut back that base molding and put casing around that door frame and have baseboard die into it, matching the rest of the door openings since that area will always be exposed so that will make it less noticeable (surprised they didn't do that in the first place). That is a minor tweak and it won't delay anything and is not a big deal to do at this point. Other than that, everything looks good, molding joints are tight and it seems like the guys did a good job, so I wouldn't worry about.
Keep in mind, that when you move in and place all the furniture, no one will ever pay attention to that molding, nobody ever does, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
Good luck and enjoy your New Home.
kbigelo hat GN Builders L.L.C gedankt Sarah
vor 8 JahrenWhat does the model home use for window & door casing? That's what your baseboards look like, not true baseboards.
As many here have said, installation should be floors, baseboards, then shoe molding (only if desired).
Honestly, I'd want it all ripped out & done again the right way. That might not be the right way to resolve the issue though. If you don't have anything specific in writing or drawings showing exactly what was to be done, you may not have recourse to fix with them paying for it.
Perhaps the builder can remove all the trim & install a proper baseboard throughout & then you may not even need shoe molding
PROAggie dba Aggie Designs
vor 8 JahrenThis is really terrible, I am so sorry! Even the base board seems wrong - as if they used the door casing as a baseboard. Poorly planned and executed. Redo all baseboards with proper base stock that's at least 5.5" tall and install a square shoe molding (since you're probably gonna have to have shoe molding anyway).
- PRO
Aggie dba Aggie Designs
vor 8 JahrenThis is not an industry standard. It may be industry standard in sloppy uncaring builder land.
User
vor 8 JahrenZuletzt geändert: vor 8 JahrenYou got what you paid for. High end materials and practices like tall base that is applied after the flooring and scribed over the humps and bumps ain't ever gonna be offered on an economy build from a tract builder. Even an "upgrade" package from a tract builder wouldn't include that.
This is what happens with too much Houzzing for real world budgets. People see all of those high end details and expect them, but don't really have the budget, or even the inkling of the budget needed to accomplish the look.
FYI for all of the horrified designers, this is what real world entry level homes look like, and is normal at that level of expense. Tract builders spare no possible cheapness.
PROLKS Architects Inc.
vor 8 JahrenIn Georgia, shoe moulding is used to cover the intentional gap between the floor finish and the adjacent wall. The gap is due to necessary allowance for expansion and contraction in the materials (wood, sheetrock, concrete, etc.) all have different expansion/contraction coefficients, so it is necessary to allow for variances in material over time, with environmental conditions to avoid the floor from warping or worse yet buckling.
I'd question if they used Quarter Round (1/4 of a circle) or traditional Shoe Moulding; Quarter Round can look a bit 'squattie-er' and throws off the proportions, making the entire assembly look cartoon-ish (depending on the size/profile of the base moulding).
When caulked/painted, the gaps in the mitering will lessen, so I don't think your attention will be called to the detail as much.
I agree with Miss Sophie Wheeler - what was specified, and it was executed might be very different from the description someone 'said', but what is in the Contract Documents is what they should have installed. Can you confirm that? and then if not as specified, you could add it to the punch list.- PRO
Aggie dba Aggie Designs
vor 8 JahrenOh, Sophie - you nailed it! I go meet clients with houzz taste and no budgets and I have to tell them they can not afford their dreams all the time. It's so depressing, not sure what to do. I wish houzz was able to convey what it costs to build the high end design that drives this website. I've worked so hard on no budget projects to make the clients happy, but it's all been at my expense.
User
vor 8 JahrenAgree with many like Sophie above. Builders have to make a house economical or no one could afford them. All of the custom details add to the price - as does things behind the wall or elsewhere that no one ever sees. LIke using a rubber liner to waterproof the shower pan rather than using Kerdi to waterproof the entire shower. Everything has a price, and they add up fast....
In Oklahoma, where I am sitting, the base and case are the same piece of wood. When it is on the floor, it is referred to as baseboard. That same cut of trim applied around a door or window is referred to as casing.
Here, builders will apply and finish the base, then install floor - just like they did on your job. The better builders will try to shim the wood floor up to meet the base, while the fast production guys will use quarter round. On remodeling, if you buy wood floor from a flooring store, they will not ask if you want quarter round, they just do it. When we do wood floor as a remodeler, we also sell new base and a room paint job so we can install the floor without quarter round - both adding substantially to the cost of the new wood floor.
Back to kbigelo, sounds like builder will not budge, They should at least fill nail holes and caulk all gaps - that means any miter joints and the gap between the base and qtr - all the way along where they touch. Don't ask them to caulk the gap between floor and qtr rnd - it will look terrible and will crack open over time. The final product will appear more seamless then. You are bothered by it because you weren't expecting it and it catches your eye. As people visit your home, they will not see it the way you do. Best of luck. Robert
kbigelo hat User gedankt- PRO
GN Builders L.L.C
vor 8 JahrenAggie, I don't think you have much experience with tract home developments. Also calling this "Uncaring builder land" I wouldn't go that far because that is not the case here. Also there is no "proper base stock" term in any industry including yours... because base molding comes in many different shapes, sizes, etc and it could be anything and used in any way you see it fit... also I don't think you have much experience or knowledge with the terms "industry standard" and its practices and this is not a case of "sloppy or uncaring builder land"... but more likely a better type of molding could have been selected for the job, but that's another story.
Now to the trim installation. The installer did his best to make it work based on the circumstances and he made the choices he made how to finish it off to make it look good, he has his way of thinking, perhaps not from a decorator point of view or anyone else's, he is there to cover everything up to make it look presentable, not to mention he doesn't have much say on the issue... but from what I can see everything is clean, tight, the molding has nice clean joints, etc.... and again, I may have done a few things differently, you might have a different idea how it should look or how it should be done, but we not paying this guy for his work and we don't make calls how it should be done.
Little inside on track Home developments... Prior to starting a tract home development, builder creates a model home... He will put in there all the bells and whistles,i.e custom trim packages, kitchen upgrade, etc and offer them to the Homebuyer as options and there will be an extra charge for any change in selection the Homeowner makes and and of course you can end up paying for your house anywhere from 10-50% more (depends what you select) compared to a basic home package.
He also has a basic home package without any upgrades, where Homeowner is presented with a few material choices they can select and if they want to change something the price will go up like in any other business when upgrades are made.
So it all comes down to one thing... Here is what you can have if you pay X amount extra for upgrades or here is what you get for X amount with everything that is selected for you.
Now back to reality... We can sit here all day and make suggestions, and add moldings that we think should have been installed or how the molding should be installed, and going on and on telling someone all molding should be removed and redone, etc... It's not happening not in this case or any other case on any development, because it's a development, there is a budget for each home, there is a time table for each home when it should be completed, etc and they have a set list of materials they use and they do everything according to their standards. Period.
kbigelo hat GN Builders L.L.C gedankt - PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
vor 8 JahrenInteresting to hear the differences between various geographical areas.
- PRO
GN Builders L.L.C
vor 8 JahrenDeborah, same here, I never use quarter round unless this is a prefinished oak molding done by a manufacturer to match pre-finished floor which comes 3/4 x 3/4". For most jobs I use 1/2 x 3/4" or 7/16 X 3/4" shoe unless something else is requested.
kbigelo hat GN Builders L.L.C gedankt 
Alex Murovec
vor 8 JahrenBaseboard goes on after flooring, unless carpet. House is old and has humps in floor? What happened to scribing? No floor needs so much expansion room for the need to add shoe. If base is off, floor is cut within 1/4 of walls, even thin base at 1/2 has plenty coverage. Shoe mold just makes it look like you had the floors refinished. Sure, maybe it's part of a traditional look, but if that was the case that baseboard would be more proportional.
kbigelo hat Alex Murovec gedankt- PRO
GN Builders L.L.C
vor 7 JahrenZuletzt geändert: vor 7 JahrenThis is called an eased edge which many trimmers do when moulding is dying into a casing. As I said before, I'm sure the guy tried to make transitions the best way possible to make it look good... many have different ways of doing things so I don't know what else can be done in this situation and I'm sure after everything is caulked and painted it will look real good.
With that said if moulding details play a big role and that is a huge concern, these things must be addressed ahead of time so the builder can select the right moulding and put a trim package so all moulding will have a "one-in-one" finish, meaning when moulding is transitioning from one to another it will not have abrupt or unfinished edges which are unsightly or unprotected... but it will be an upgrade and it will involve extra costs.
On the general note, how many people will actually walk into someone's house and pay attention to base or quarter round moulding and make a comment how the base moulding is done or how it transitioning into one another. They will say nice painting, nice decor, nice furniture, etc so I wouldn't lose sleep over it, I'm sure you have a very beautiful house.
Away from the topic, when I was starting out I met an old school custom home builder, he was huge in the 80s, early 90's, and he said know you just starting out so I will give you one very important advice "When you delivering a house to a customer, you have to remember one thing... always make sure that everything in front of the toilet looks perfect because that is the only place where people will notice everything" LOL
Good luck
macro1976 .
vor 4 Jahren1/4 round should be ended in a 22 1/2 degree cut and not a 45 degree also QR is only used for floating floors and shoe molding in used for ALL other hard surface flooring
Houzz-Nutzer 943407055
vor 3 JahrenBase shoe is the standard especially on new construction. Fact. Professional flooring installs should be installed with NO MORE THAN 1/4" EXPOSURE so installation of base shoe covers. Quarter round is for sloppy sub-standard installations. Unprofessional without question. 30 yes in the field. I dont use quarter round even on remodels. It's tacky half ass sh**!!! Sorry for the profanity, but that's what it is. UNACCEPTABLE!!!
pjank1
letztes JahrZuletzt geändert: letztes JahrThey are probably trying to hide some imperfections or expect some major expansion that would expose gaps, needs too much scribing, etc., Also, that "quarter round/Shoe" molding is really big for that trim. If shoe/quarter round is absolutely needed because of gaps, unlevel floors they don't have time to scribe, etc., that floor trim should be taller or the quarter round/shoe molding should be smaller and an actual 1/4 round.
millworkman
letztes JahrBeing a 7 year old thread I am sure they have long since figured it out or sold the home...................
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